Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: ARENA, RATING, & DIVISION Impressions/Feedback
Subject: ARENA, RATING, & DIVISION Impressions/Feedback

I'm not sure if it is only my problem, but I hold a steady 1590-1650, with a on-average +6-15 K/d spread, yet, I only get ranked steel? At the beginning, I got paired with people that gave kills to the other team, and my score usually suffered with a few 1300's (maybe 4?) I just find it ludicrous that I would only get ranked steel. So I'm not sure if I just suck, or its flawed.

  • 05.19.2010 10:35 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

If it moves... kill it.

Posted by: Jalapinosurfer
I'm not sure if it is only my problem, but I hold a steady 1590-1650, with a on-average +6-15 K/d spread, yet, I only get ranked steel? At the beginning, I got paired with people that gave kills to the other team, and my score usually suffered with a few 1300's (maybe 4?) I just find it ludicrous that I would only get ranked steel. So I'm not sure if I just suck, or its flawed.


It's not just your problem. There's you, me, and two-three other guys in just the last two pages of posts who all have been placed really low for doing really well. I am hoping there is either an explanation for this soon or that whatever caused people to be placed the way they were this season gets fixed.

  • 05.20.2010 12:36 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

yoyoyoyoy!!!!!!!!!!

i think instead of this new rating system, we should go back to the way it was on halo3 with a little twist...take out the experience that goes with the rating and have each division which is onyx,bronze,silver,and gold each to have fifty levels, its like it was and halo3,but without the experience factor that everybody was complaining about in halo 3, and instead of just getting a 50 in halo, you can get it three more times!!! itll also seperate the really good players, from the not so good...lemme know what you think of that.

  • 05.20.2010 1:18 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

If it moves... kill it.

Posted by: MoNsTrOsItY18
i think instead of this new rating system, we should go back to the way it was on halo3 with a little twist...take out the experience that goes with the rating and have each division which is onyx,bronze,silver,and gold each to have fifty levels, its like it was and halo3,but without the experience factor that everybody was complaining about in halo 3, and instead of just getting a 50 in halo, you can get it three more times!!! itll also seperate the really good players, from the not so good...lemme know what you think of that.


It sounds interesting, the only problem I foresee is someone who earned fifty then got placed up a division and went, "Great, now I gotta get fifty all over again!" Otherwise, very interesting.

  • 05.20.2010 1:23 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

An assist should NOT equal a kill.
If an assist is gathered by a teamate STEALING the kill then yes, the kill should not be counted as a whole kill and the assist should equal a kill.
BUT that is rarely the case.
Many times if your teamates are not good enough and you kill someone and injure someone else your teamates skill and smarts will determine your assist or not. If your teamates are dumb you shouldn't be NEGLECTED points overtime. That is ridiculous. But it will always be a factor.
Overall though in every sceneario added together, with how often each happens percentage wise a kill DOES take more Cahoocheez than an assist does. I believe you should make a formula where an assist is 70-85% of a kills meaning.
Honestly I believe an assist Cahoochee-wise is around that percentage range and I think that many people could agree with me. So logically an assist should count for a lot, just not a whole lot like a kill.

THIS IS AN UNREALISTIC DETAIL, but what about a mini-assist?
When you shoot someone once or twice and he gets killed be a teamates grenade and you DON'T get an assist even though your a decent fact in his cause of death, you should get like 10% of a kill's worth I believe. Even if you don't make it a medal or something to be seen IT should be a factor in my opinion. And thinking of it logically... it really seems only fair.

Gamertag-War Moon.

The reason that brought assists to my attention is my percentage of the Onyx Ranking.

My assists was in the 300's my kills around 860 and deaths at about 500.

Over half of my games I played in Arena Slayer WAS AGAINST ONYX PLAYERS!

And I got a 1.7 k/d ratio against them!
Other onyx players... meaning I am much much better than them. Which means I should be top 5% logically and 10% at least, but I got top 80%.
Why? IDK.
Bungie, something needs to be fixed here.
When you do better than your ranking players for 30 games in a row, you should be the top of the top there. Not the bottom... major flaw.

WAS IT REALLY BECAUSE ASSISTS? I thought my assists seemed better than average but I saw knightxofxlight's onyx percentage at 5% when his k/d ratio is somewhere around 1.3 but around 60% assists to his kills making his kill+assist OVER death ratio slightly better than mine. Honestly I can see that SLIGHT difference being the difference to 80% and 5% but I cannot see a 1.3 k/d ratio against onyx players BEING BETTER than a 1.7 k/d ratio against onyx players even with double assists per games. Kills per game were pretty even I am pretty sure but I got way less deaths per game... which should mean much much more than less assists per game.

I hope you read and thought about what I had to say. LOGIC is used here unlike many comments I have read.

  • 05.20.2010 4:24 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: Darwi
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I think assists are important... and should be incorporated somewhere in the equation.

But not at the expense of the K/D ratio.

Negative K/D ratios have to be treated like the parasitic lepers they are.

And for assists... I imagine that a significant proportion of assists are generated by the indiscriminate use of grenades. If you are going to include these in your equation then you should also include any friendly fire that your blindly lobbed ball of death inflicts on your team-mates (including yourself).

In fact... I think a LOT of damage is being done by indiscriminate use of power weapons (eg. rockets, 'nades, hammers, etc).

I'm assuming Bungie has at hand the % of damage each player inflicted in a kill - both by the enemy and team-mates.

So instead of kill-death ratios... base the skill score for a game performance on "damage inflicted to enemy" vs "damage inflicted to self/team".

eg. We are in a room fighting... my team-mate is going toe to toe with an enemy player... he is at 60% life and the enemy is at 85% life... and then I come in and try to cherry pick with a silly grenade lob in a tight space.

Both dead.

I get 0.15 to my plus damage (the remaining 15% of the enemy kill) but also 0.40 added to my negative damage (for finishing off my team-mate). My team-mate gets the plus 0.85 he richly deserves... and the poor dispatched enemy still holds his head high with the plus 0.60 he was in the process of trying to earn.

In addition I have done 25% damage to myself - and if another enemy comes into the room to find me weeping over the broken body of my fallen comrade and helps end my suffering... well thats only 0.75 plus to him (as I was already damaged goods) and another 0.25 minus to me.

This would encourage team play... everyone gets their piece of a kill... but also stop people giving up their lives so cheaply - and indeed the lives of their team-mates.

PS. I love the grenades in Halo Reach.

  • 05.20.2010 5:00 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: Darwi
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Ok... working through my suggestion to change the skill ratio to "damage for" (the total % of each kill you earnt for your team) vs "damage against" (your deaths plus friendly fire you inflict on team-mates).

Say you contribute to 10 kills... five entirely of your own doing and another five where you did 85%, 60%, 55%, 20%, and 10% of the damage respectively (remember it doesn't matter if you were the final 'killer').

Your final "plus damage" is 1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0 + 0.85 + 0.60 + 0.55 + 0.20 + 0.10 = 7.3

Now, in the game you also died six times... four of which were entirely your fault... but in two others you were subjected to friendly fire (one rocket from a team-mate that did 60% damage and another indiscriminate grenade that did 20%). Your "minus damage" sits at 1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0 + 0.6 + 0.2 = 4.8

In addition you were a little liberal with your gravity hammer and helped speed up the demise of a few of your buddies... 25%, 10%, and 10% respectively. Not too bad (you are a cautious team player of course)... but this still adds 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.1 onto your "minus damage"... giving a final score of 5.25

Then your "skill rating" for the game is 7.3 / 5.25 = 1.39

  • 05.20.2010 5:29 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Sumeas91
Posted by: Jalapinosurfer
I'm not sure if it is only my problem, but I hold a steady 1590-1650, with a on-average +6-15 K/d spread, yet, I only get ranked steel? At the beginning, I got paired with people that gave kills to the other team, and my score usually suffered with a few 1300's (maybe 4?) I just find it ludicrous that I would only get ranked steel. So I'm not sure if I just suck, or its flawed.


It's not just your problem. There's you, me, and two-three other guys in just the last two pages of posts who all have been placed really low for doing really well. I am hoping there is either an explanation for this soon or that whatever caused people to be placed the way they were this season gets fixed.

Daily or Average ratings mean nothing at all. The only thing your rating is used to do is to determine who did better or worse than you in a single game.

Everything else - from adjusting your skill after a game to placing you into a Division to determining your percentile within the Division - is handled by TrueSkill and how your TrueSkill compares to the TrueSkill of everyone else in the playlist.

You're not going to get those same ratings against people in a higher Division.

  • 05.20.2010 9:57 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

F l u f f a y

Change it to a slightly modified version of the H2 ranking system.

-it was simple to understand
-plays to the true Halo theme (Win as a team lose as a team)
-With a slight tweak legit 50's will be possible (I don't, however, want to see a repeat of rampant 50's like H3

  • 05.20.2010 10:13 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: [none]
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It looks like only the first three games of the day were counting for getting rated, instead of the best three games of the day as described.

  • 05.20.2010 10:34 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: XtianD
  • user homepage:

Posted by: DIESTRONG86
Daily or Average ratings mean nothing at all. The only thing your rating is used to do is to determine who did better or worse than you in a single game.

Everything else - from adjusting your skill after a game to placing you into a Division to determining your percentile within the Division - is handled by TrueSkill and how your TrueSkill compares to the TrueSkill of everyone else in the playlist.

You're not going to get those same ratings against people in a higher Division.



I understand this. I know its not your rating. The rating only tells Trueskill which position (1-8) you placed in the game. My problem is.... IM ALWAYS 1-3!! ALWAYS!!! (u know... with minor exceptions hehehe). And i play against silvers, golds, and all of the time and they dont do better than me either. yet im still a bronze.

Im not even gonna start talking about ratings, k/d's, w/l, nothing... just what i see? how come they're gold if im a bronze and im better than them?!?!

  • 05.20.2010 11:51 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: XtianD
  • user homepage:

Posted by: MoNsTrOsItY18
i think instead of this new rating system, we should go back to the way it was on halo3 with a little twist...take out the experience that goes with the rating and have each division which is onyx,bronze,silver,and gold each to have fifty levels, its like it was and halo3,but without the experience factor that everybody was complaining about in halo 3, and instead of just getting a 50 in halo, you can get it three more times!!! itll also seperate the really good players, from the not so good...lemme know what you think of that.


There are 50 ranks, even though u dont see them. Those 5 division, each have 10 steps in them, and you actually go up on them. If you are a silver... you can be 31 or a 39. Trueskill always works with 50 ranks. They tried that in GoW2 also... remember? 5 ranks only. Havent u thought to yourself why 5 divisions? why not 6 or 4... They could do 10 division, with 5 steps on each one.

  • 05.20.2010 11:56 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: XtianD
  • user homepage:

Posted by: War Happy
An assist should NOT equal a kill.


^^^FAIL!! Assist=Kills FTW!!!

  • 05.20.2010 11:57 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: XtianD
  • user homepage:

Posted by: DM Shadowstep
It looks like only the first three games of the day were counting for getting rated, instead of the best three games of the day as described.


They did describe it like that... and then shiska backed out of it through the forums saying it was all your ratings, and that daily ratings were worth squat.

  • 05.20.2010 11:58 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

SLAYER ARENA IS AWESOME the only thing that i didn't understand is that i got a star and after sometime a message that said something about levels of gamers... can someone explain that !

  • 05.20.2010 12:06 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

After playing quite a bit of arena these are the issues I see and things I would recommend:

1) There needs to be a MUCH more comprehensive tracking system for the arena. You should be able to see how your score is calculated and how much you need to get to the next division, for example. Basically you should be able to see every arena stat and all the reasons for why or why you are not in Onyx, if not in game then at least on Bnet!

2)I like the arena ranking system on 2 fronts in that it will decrease bought 50s and it acts as a way to distinguish high level players from another because as we all know not all 50s are skilled equally! However, if arena replaces the numerical rank system I foresee a huge problem. Once you have gotten to Gold or whatever you can personally get to, and when there is no explanation for what you need to get to Onyx, players will not feel like playing anymore. No matter how much you love a game there are going to be times when you walk away from it super frustrated and angry. If there is no reason for you to go back to the game, other than it is just fun, then a player will not continue playing it for 3 years like we have seen with all the other Halos, but rather they will pick up another game that gives them rewards for playing well. I can see the -what is the point in trying to get in the top 2% of Onyx again when it will just get reset in a month- being thrown around a lot. If there is nothing permanent to show for your feats then why play at all?

3) There needs to be some way to counteract quitters, because when a teammate leaves in arena it is virtually game over due to the incredible team focused emphasis on the game. So basically every time a player quits you are penalized for being matched with a jerk.

4) If arena is to replace the ranked system then there needs to be multiple playlist options just like ranked had in halo 3 because like I said people get very tired of playing social all day when there is nothing to gain from it.

  • 05.20.2010 5:59 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

zergbreak21

a summer of no xbox isnt that bad

i think that if you played a lot more than others you got a higher ranking cuz i only did the 3 games a day and over the season i won half the games but always went positive and the ppl that played all night got higher rankings

  • 05.20.2010 6:15 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

I completely agree with pretty much everything that mags has said. I know that it's a beta so this isn't what the game is exactly going to be however, I nothing else to base it on so I will treat it as the real game. There needs to be more playlists both inside the arena as well as out. Grab bag is fun to a certain extent, I mean I can only play so many stockpile matches sometimes I'm just in the mood to "slay" as it were. I think there should be a strictly slayer playlist, as well as the big team and multi team. On that note, to please a lot of different people adding more playlists into the arena giving more avenues to the higher rankings would be a positive. Personally I really enjoy the concept of doubles you and a close partner against another pair its ultra competitive and you don't have the same worries of a teammate quitting, betraying etc. A playlist strictly for pro would be a positive as well. So essentially to end my miniature rant... I agree with the guy above me about the lack of desire to continue playing with the ratings/rankings are lost and there needs to be more playlists.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 7:58 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 7:57 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Arena is a good idea in general but all and all it causes people to cheat, fight about rankings, and argue about who's better. I do enjoy fighting competitively but in the end all arena causes is fighting.

Ranking and divisions don't reflect player ability

Rush tactics on almost every map
and rush to weapons were no skill is involved

shouldn't be armor abilities in arena if any skill should be involved

all and all i loved the beta
thanks Bungie!

  • 05.20.2010 8:13 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Tru7h. C4RN4GE. Bungie.

I hope the trueskill works for the full game. Also, it might be a good idea to NOT assign players a rank if they didn't play enough games in a season.

I only played a couple games for maybe three days and I got a really low rating for the season. Not very accurate seeing how I played rather well.

  • 05.20.2010 10:57 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

i really like the rating system for arena. rewarding players for individual skill is a relief, especially if you are going in alone.

  • 05.21.2010 12:41 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Certain weapons should be classed as more skillful as others. So if someone has 10 shotgun kills and 0 deaths but someone else has 10 DMR kills and 0 deaths, the guy with 10 DMR kills should get a better rating.

The system already counts how many kills you have with each weapon, so a kill with each weapon could have a certain amount of points and if this could be factored in to the rating it would be much better.

EDIT: Also, medals should have a certain amount of points too.

[Edited on 05.21.2010 4:19 AM PDT]

  • 05.21.2010 4:18 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Luck.

The current arena rating system seems pointless to me. In the end, all you have is a K/D/A/P function that orders people in an FFA fashion, then feeds that stuff to trueskill to get your division and percentile. The daily ratings seem to mean very little, and are almost exp-like because only the best games effect them. If trueskill is used for matchmaking too, everyone's ratings will eventually end up the same!

To make things make sense, you need to
-Give signifigance to daily ratings

-Replace the KDAP with something far more sophisticated. I got the impression that it could sense a ton of things about you.

  • 05.21.2010 4:33 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas