Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: The feeling Reach is missing.
Subject: The feeling Reach is missing.
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Posted by: Kos Ythiom
I somewhat disagree with the original poster.


Lol, so it seems you actually read it.

Typical troll posting before he reads.

  • 05.17.2010 9:04 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: Stuckers
Halo: REACH is not Halo 2. If you feel that Halo 2 was the definitive Halo FPS experience, then I would suggest to go back and play that. I could argue that Rare's "Goldeneye" for the N64 was the first true and best FPS to come out for consoles. The controls were awesome, movement was quick, multiplayer was incredibly fun, etc...
You mentioned that you miss a target even when aiming accurately with the bloom. Are you waiting for the reticle to reset for the next shot, or are you trying to compensate for the random trajectory your next bullet will go because you didn't? Personally, I think it would take more "skillz to get da killz" because of the blooming reticle.
I don't see the upholding arguments for strafing. If you can't strafe because of movement speed, the enemy shouldn't either. It isn't like Red gets a .5% speed boost over Blue. Aim better to compensate for the strafing.
For your points:
-Speed should be increased slightly. Not double or triple. I don't like moseying along in a gunfight.
-Jump height is fine. These Spartans are less powerful than what we are used to; so it is time to get used to them.
-There is nothing wrong with Reticle Bloom. I get kills and die just the same with the bloom. I don't notice it anyway.
-Having the Scout's Sprint replaced with Evade is just a silly suggestion. Elites are more agile than Spartans. Sprint is much "Real World".
-Clip size would be nice if it were slightly bigger, but until then, I just aim better.
-If you crouched when I threw a melee, what if I was looking down at the ground at you crouching? Will you still be able to dodge then? Not everyone aims for the head when doing a melee.
-Reach's 'nade trajectory is okay, me thinks. It is taking some getting used to, but I like the way they changed up the way 'nade handles being thrown.
-You think you can switch out a weapon that you are holding to a weapon on your back faster than what the video game does it? I'd like to see that. The speed is fine. Make sure you have enough ammo in your clip (or enough grenades to spam) to not need the switch.



I never said increase speed double or triple. I said acceleration. Please look up the definitions, they are two VERY different things.

Evade? Gameplay > canon. I dont care if elites are supposed to be whatever. It would be funner and be less detrimental to gameplay if everyone was the same speed and could juke.

Crouching questions? See H2.

Jump height? Gameplay > Canon.

Bloom? ROFL its the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

No, I cant switch a weapon faster than the game in real life, but I can press the button and be ready, aimed at the opponent ready to land shots faster than the game allows me to. Thats frustrating.

  • 05.17.2010 9:07 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

While I agree with some of the points you made, I always get a laugh out of people talking like Halo 2 was so fast paced. Sure H2 was faster than 3 or Reach is, but Halo has always been a slow paced FPS since the first game. Seriously, while I love Halo, it has single handedly slowed the entire genre down because others want to mimic the success of Halo. If you want a fast paced game go play something like Quake III or the old Unreal Tournaments, then come back and tell me Halo is fast paced.

  • 05.17.2010 9:08 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Even though I agree with you bungie will never make any of those changes. I miss being able to take on 3 -blam!- players at once without even having trouble. Now, 3 -blam!- players mean 3 nukes coming at your face and since you can't run or jump anymore there are no means to dodge them.

  • 05.17.2010 9:10 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: jiggerstick
While I agree with some of the points you made, I always get a laugh out of people talking like Halo 2 was so fast paced. Sure H2 was faster than 3 or Reach is, but Halo has always been a slow paced FPS since the first game. Seriously, while I love Halo, it has single handedly slowed the entire genre down because others want to mimic the success of Halo. If you want a fast paced game go play something like Quake III or the old Unreal Tournaments, then come back and tell me Halo is fast paced.


It's a hell of a lot more fast paced then CoD, I mean it WAS. Now it feels like a gears of War/Halo hybrid. I dunno what bungie was thinking when they made this game.

  • 05.17.2010 9:11 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: RoosterJuice01
Posted by: jiggerstick
While I agree with some of the points you made, I always get a laugh out of people talking like Halo 2 was so fast paced. Sure H2 was faster than 3 or Reach is, but Halo has always been a slow paced FPS since the first game. Seriously, while I love Halo, it has single handedly slowed the entire genre down because others want to mimic the success of Halo. If you want a fast paced game go play something like Quake III or the old Unreal Tournaments, then come back and tell me Halo is fast paced.


It's a hell of a lot more fast paced then CoD, I mean it WAS. Now it feels like a gears of War/Halo hybrid. I dunno what bungie was thinking when they made this game.


I believe they were thinking something along the lines of "derp derp derp derp"

  • 05.17.2010 9:13 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: jiggerstick
While I agree with some of the points you made, I always get a laugh out of people talking like Halo 2 was so fast paced. Sure H2 was faster than 3 or Reach is, but Halo has always been a slow paced FPS since the first game. Seriously, while I love Halo, it has single handedly slowed the entire genre down because others want to mimic the success of Halo. If you want a fast paced game go play something like Quake III or the old Unreal Tournaments, then come back and tell me Halo is fast paced.
I wouldn't go so far as to say Halo is slow paced, more like medium. CE did get pretty hectic at a high competitive level though.

  • 05.17.2010 9:24 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: That Shroom Guy
Posted by: jiggerstick
While I agree with some of the points you made, I always get a laugh out of people talking like Halo 2 was so fast paced. Sure H2 was faster than 3 or Reach is, but Halo has always been a slow paced FPS since the first game. Seriously, while I love Halo, it has single handedly slowed the entire genre down because others want to mimic the success of Halo. If you want a fast paced game go play something like Quake III or the old Unreal Tournaments, then come back and tell me Halo is fast paced.
I wouldn't go so far as to say Halo is slow paced, more like medium. CE did get pretty hectic at a high competitive level though.


The pace of the game should be determined by the players playing it, not by irrational limitations like bloom and 8 bullets per clip. This is halo, it doesnt have to make sense so long as it is for the better of gameplay.

  • 05.17.2010 9:27 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Team Skepsis are the best

Posted by: WSJFGBSJLFGBvdjd
Posted by: marinemight
So I am a idiot because I want a good game were you can't run around with a weapon and win or lose in two minutes? No, stop trolling and asking for COD it won't get you anywhere.


So apparently 4sk's mean games take 2 min. NO MORON. QUICKER KILL TIMES DOESNT SPEED UP THE GAME VERY MUCH. SEE SWAT GAMES THAT LAST 7 MIN CONSISTENTLY.

QUICKER KILL TIMES MEAN PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE TO USE THEIR BRAINS BEFORE RUNNING OUT IN THE OPEN AND NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF COVER.

I never said cod.

Jesus.

My suggestions would make the game LESS like CoD.
Anyone who makes a suggestion on these forums is accused of attempting to make Reach like CoD, even if that suggestion is replace all characters with pink elephants and make it take place at a tea party with the mad hatter.

  • 05.17.2010 9:29 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: Jetpack Ability
I agree, but I think Bungie is set with those bad decisions they have made.

Sadly, those things aren't getting changed. Luckily there will be an MLG play list to look forward too.


Yeah. I just hope they give us the options to tweak acceleration and more than 4 settings for gravity and speed. The ability to turn off bloom and tweak weapons strengths would basically make this game the greatest game of all time, as MLG could literally perfect the game of Halo given these tools (seeing as how bungie obviously isnt capable).

If you cant turn reticle bloom off then we will just have to find some way of comboing health and shield damage so that guns are more powerful and explosions balanced accordingly so that kill times are quicker but rockets dont absolutely dominate.

  • 05.17.2010 9:46 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

this dude is totally right like awesome he hit the nail on the head that is exactly how i feel i am always gettin killed by less skilled players and this would have never happened in H3 or others b/c of the response time of the controls i always felt as though i could improve in H3 that the character had the ability to get a perfection medal every time a played that it was my own skill level that was holding me back not the game trying to compensate and make me equal to others playing it i know im far from the best halo player but 9 out of 10 games in H3 i bet im the top player in the room and that 1 out of 10 im in the top 3 but not in reach a get killed by stupid kids throwing grenades at random b/c they are too powerful i dont get a kill b/c some coward uses armor lock when i blast him to bits and just waits for his shield to recharge or some 11teen year old is hiding is some corner with the hammer (who screwed up this weapon that bad) and turing on there invisibility over and over this kind of stuff should be eliminated bring back the skill that is hands down the best part of halo i think that is what really sets it apart from other popular shooters its not about who has the biggest tv with the best picture that allows you to see that opponent first and by result get the kill halo didnt bend to those ways it stood apart you could get hit first take a grenade blast maybe even a bad rocket shot turn and wield your fury for quick vengeance leaving a player stunned and crying why i shot them first wahh its b/c you suck go play duty where skill doesnt matter b/c here in the halo world i will own you and your little brother on you split screen why b/c i have skill and quickness with my thumbs and thoughts so before you even know what happened a jumped over you and shot you in the face while you still think you got the drop on me suckers but all this has been lost with these new restrictions and "powers" that help those kids who cant compete have a decent chance against me which is infuriating enough to make me question whether or not i want this game even though the halo platform is my favorite you guys are trying to ruin make the character the way they were open the door to skill dominating the map like it used to not positioning and weapon gathering being the most important part of the game thats why there is a ranking system right so lesser players dont have to get murdered playing higher skilled players this division of ranks i what makes halo a stand alone clear cut favorite for best shooter for serious gamers with skill i am in control of my destiny in the match i play good and have a high k/d i play lesser and have a worse k/d but not now not in reach i can play good or bad and have a very similar k/d count this should be an obvious red flag if you want to make it back into the hearts of those fans you began to alienate with ODST (which sucked boat loads by the way) bring back the old halo movement and speed lightness in the air it made you feel more in control of your character like it was only limited by your own skill not like you were dragging around an old man with lead boots on who looks slow moves slow and counters slow make some changes if you want me out in the field for reach

  • 05.17.2010 9:56 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: marinemight
So I am a idiot because I want a good game were you can't run around with a weapon and win or lose in two minutes? No, stop trolling and asking for COD it won't get you anywhere.


Yes you are an idiot because you obviously want a slow game with a tiny skill gap and you make some stupid reference to COD instead of providing an actual argument.

  • 05.17.2010 9:57 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Chupa's got a little secret, yes he does.

That's a horrible idea. It'd be H3 all over again, except worse.

  • 05.17.2010 10:00 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: WSJFGBSJLFGBvdjd
There is something to be said for intense, in your face action. Raw action. Where things that happen so fast, so explosively, so relentlessly, that you can be overcome by an opponent in the blink of an eye. The slightest error punished by instant death.
Have you ever used grenades?

  • 05.17.2010 10:02 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

The DMR, I can't believe it's not Battle Rifle

HaloCharts Player Page

Player speed and jump height are two things that definitely need increased in my opinion. It just doesn't feel the same.

I'm good with bloom, it adds a new dimension of skill to gameplay.

Maybe Spartans will be able to evade in the final game, but don't remove sprint.

The only weapons that I think need a clip size increase are the AR and the Pistol. The AR seems completely useless because of the new shielding system and most times you need a melee or pistol to finish the job. I'm not sure on the pistol, it may be fine when I can actually see the reticle after my first shot.

Crouching dodging beatdowns is stupid...

I would prefer Halo 3 grenade trajectory, the new one seems like a mixture of ODST and Halo 2: both of which were terrible for throwing grenades. Although I may just be too used to Halo 3's version.

Weapon change times seem pretty decent to me.

  • 05.17.2010 10:12 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Yes I do like halo. Yes I do like call of duty. Yes I do like battlefield.
Am I a traitor or what?

Hey at least I am not a troll.

  • 05.17.2010 3:18 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

The ability of an individual to stand out and really shine in this game is now completely gone.

  • 05.18.2010 2:36 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: porkstein
The ability of an individual to stand out and really shine in this game is now completely gone.


Almost all of the elements that made Halo MP fun are gone. Sure I'll buy the game and play for a bit. But I doubt the MP on live will be popular for more than a month or two unless bungie makes things A LOT different than the beta they placed on our tv screens.

  • 05.18.2010 2:43 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

We are all connected;
To each other, biologically
To the earth, chemically
To the rest of the universe atomically

-Neil deGrasse Tyson-

Tell us about the good ol days, grandpa!

  • 05.18.2010 2:47 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Reformed Halo 2 addict. Currently a Halo 3 addict

Posted by: WSJFGBSJLFGBvdjd
There is something to be said for intense, in your face action. Raw action. Where things that happen so fast, so explosively, so relentlessly, that you can be overcome by an opponent in the blink of an eye. The slightest error punished by instant death.

The action that makes you feel alive, like you are in the game. Where things are so responsive that your thoughts and actions connect, sync, so that your mind lives through the game.

Back when a nasty strafe would cross your eyes. Back when a ghandi hop made you miss.

Many of you never played halo 2. When it took 4 shots to the head to kill, not 3 to the body and 1 to the head. Most of you think, H2, glitches, bad graphics, that game sucked.

Allow me to enlighten you.

In the H2 days, a bold player could float about maps, and with a good enough strafe and shot, he could wreck an entire team. There was no "limit" to how good you could be at halo 2. An individual could shine and make things happen that no-one else could. Why?

In halo 2, everything happened quicker. Time is everything. You cant just run top mid and armor lock against a worth opponent. That is a death sentence in H2.

Your gun shot where you aimed it every time. Perfect sync between a players mind and their gun. When you pressed left on the movement stick, your player instantly swept left and with grace. When you jumped you actually elevated above the ground.

A player wasnt limited by the ammo in his clip, but rather by his shield status and ability to overcome.

For those of you who dont know, there was such depth to H2 that a good player could out-everything a lesser skilled player to a point and so quickly that the lesser player is slaughtered in bewilderment.

Now when I shoot, no matter how accurate I am, due to bloom my gun fails me consistently.

Now when I change direction, or strafe, the game responds at such a slow pace that my actions are ineffective.

My ability to think ahead and avoid dangerous situations is rendered useless, as it has been replaced by the ability to press "x" to armor lock my troubles away. No longer do I have the thrill of knowing that danger may lie around every corner.

No longer do I see players move about the map with vigor and strafe - because they cant. The skill gap to moving is now gone. Aiming as well.

The things that connect me to the game and make my character feel alive and responsive are now gone.

I have never once in my entire time playing reach, felt nervous, or outplayed. I am not invested in my own characters life. I dont fear death like I used to. My skill is greater than the game allows - just like many others. Thus, the game feels sluggish, disconnected. I am no longer in the game, running around. It feels as if I am controlling an old man.

Of course, lesser skilled players will not notice this disconnect, because they have not yet learned to control the game with such intensity, and the game will happen at a faster pace than they are able to process. But for those of us who can process and compensate for every action, grenade, etc faster than it is possible (due to the limitations the game places on players) to throw these obstacles at us, the game is dull, and chore like.

Fix it.

Make the core gameplay shine like it did in H1 and H2.

Allow the player to be exceptional and unique.

-Double, tripple player accelration.
-Increase player movement 125% ish. (110% of H3).
-Restore jump height.
-Remove bloom, or reduce it and make ALL guns more powerful.
-Get rid of sprint, and give spartans evade (like 60% distance though)
-Increase Clip sizes so I can get an overkill with my weapon provided I play well enough. If my opponents cant kill me before I get the overkill then I deserve not to be limited by clip size.
-Make it so crouching dodges beatdowns
-Restore H2 or H3 grenade trajectory
-Decrease weapon change times


I am still able to immerse myself in the game to the point that you described. I still feel that intensity. It took some time for me though because of how different the game plays. I was too caught up in the strangeness of how the game played. It was not until after the first week of the Beta passed that I was able to appreciate the changes. I also appreciate what Halo CE, Halo 2, and Halo 3 had to offer because each game is different. Halo Reach is different as well.

This game is different and a lot of the changes you want will only copy the older Halo games. This is redundant. I say wait for the game to be released and jump into the MLG playlist once it is ready which is what I will be doing as well.

One last thing, please stop with the egotistical "I am able to process this faster than you" argument. All you are doing is needlessly insulting other gamers which makes your argument lose merit.

  • 05.18.2010 2:59 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Dun wrry Beb, iz gun b k!

Life goes on, people move on. You should too. Reach is a new game, and so the develpers are obviously going to try and excel/advance on what theyve already got, not revert back to some of their older material.

/thread

  • 05.18.2010 3:34 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Frigum fabulam, frater.

Bungie doesn't want you to feel as afraid of single individuals (as this increases the game's emphasis on precision and reaction time) so instead they want you to fear the enemy team as a whole (emphasizing strategy, teamwork and communication).

[Edited on 05.18.2010 3:44 AM PDT]

  • 05.18.2010 3:43 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

IB. The bane of my existence.

Posted by: Dback139
What you're suggesting would be a totally different gameplay experience, where, at the speed you're suggesting, would be like playing Unreal Tournament, it would be very gimmicky.

Also, for what it's worth, I feel that the clip size is a non-issue. You should have to work for your kill combo, meaning an effective combination of weapons, melee, and grenades. If people are just emptying 40 round clips and stringing together combos, where's the skill? It's just mindless bullet spraying.

Also, try upping your look sensitivity. I really find Reach to be much more natural feeling in terms of movement than ANY of the older Halo games.


At this point, there is no skill to grenades or melees. The Melee system, thanks to the lunge, leaves both players either with no shields, or dead, and grenades are infinitely more effective due to the slowed movement speed.

  • 05.18.2010 3:45 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Make the core gameplay shine like it did in H1 and H2.

Allow the player to be exceptional and unique.

-Double, tripple player accelration.
-Increase player movement 125% ish. (110% of H3).
-Restore jump height.
-Remove bloom, or reduce it and make ALL guns more powerful.
-Get rid of sprint, and give spartans evade (like 60% distance though)
-Increase Clip sizes so I can get an overkill with my weapon provided I play well enough. If my opponents cant kill me before I get the overkill then I deserve not to be limited by clip size.
-Make it so crouching dodges beatdowns
-Restore H2 or H3 grenade trajectory
-Decrease weapon change times


Agree with everything except clip size and bloom.

I like bloom, I just don't think it was done correctly. The patient accurate player should always be rewarded over the spammer. In shadowrun, controlling the bloom and landing headshots gave you faster kill times(3 headshots) than spamming, both in close range and long range. Spamming did nothing, because the bloom was more significant.

In reach, controlling bloom on the DMR slows down kill times for the patient accurate players, and really isn't signifigant enough to stop spam, except in long range. There is no reward for shooting the head before shields pop. Its very easy to control and really doesn't add any depth in the same way it does in other games.

Personally I think four headshots should kill with the magnum and pistol and bloom should expand more and contract faster. This would punish the spammers, and reward the true marksmen.

And as far s clip size goes, its fine, although the magnum should have a quicker reload. When mlg increases the damage, the dmr clip will go alot further. I don't think I've ever seen a person land an overkill with 4 four shots in a row in Halo3, most multikills come from cleaning up one shot enemys(teamwork) and power weapons.

[Edited on 05.18.2010 6:20 AM PDT]

  • 05.18.2010 6:17 AM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas