Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: Halo Reach Bloom is Pointless
Subject: Halo Reach Bloom is Pointless

Yes I do like halo. Yes I do like call of duty. Yes I do like battlefield.
Am I a traitor or what?

OK, how am I retarded? You know if I have a mental disability? Damn four year old lying troll.

  • 05.20.2010 5:32 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Its not pointless, its to allow increased kill effectiveness at close ranges. Imagine if DMR didn't have bloom but it was limited to firing as quickly as waiting for the bloom to reset entirely - it would be junk, sort of like how the H3 pistol was complete junk because you couldn't fire it fast enough in CQB. The BR was intended to be nerfed for long to extreme long ranges, bloom just allows precision weapons to function at closer ranges by allowing the firing rate to be increased.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 5:34 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 5:33 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

every weapon has recoil, no matter how many shots are fired. Bloom represents this.

  • 05.20.2010 5:34 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

OK, how am I retarded? You know if I have a mental disability? Damn four year old lying troll.

you actually called me a retard first, so make sure your own hands are clean before you say anything

  • 05.20.2010 5:36 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

*Cough*

  • 05.20.2010 5:37 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Pudd D Sniper
*Cough*


QFT

  • 05.20.2010 5:46 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Rest in Peace halo 2

The bloom is balanced out by the small clip size, if you spam, you have a better chance of missing and thus wasting bullets while the enemy shoots you in the head 5 times. With the bloom spamming is only effective at close range but with bloom, spamming is ineffective at medium to long range. IF those "skilled" people are so "skilled" then they should be able to overcome blind luck by actually hitting a person in the head. Bloom takes skill to handle, certainly more then the all-purpose BR spamming at all ranges.

  • 05.20.2010 5:46 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Yes I do like halo. Yes I do like call of duty. Yes I do like battlefield.
Am I a traitor or what?

Posted by: mrdude3410
OK, how am I retarded? You know if I have a mental disability? Damn four year old lying troll.

you actually called me a retard first, so make sure your own hands are clean before you say anything


I called you a idiot, not retarded.

  • 05.20.2010 5:51 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: marinemight
Posted by: mrdude3410
OK, how am I retarded? You know if I have a mental disability? Damn four year old lying troll.

you actually called me a retard first, so make sure your own hands are clean before you say anything


I called you a idiot, not retarded.


Whatever you said, or didn't say, you still resorted to childish name calling. Your nose still isn't clean.

  • 05.20.2010 5:53 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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My armor is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred.
In the Emperor's name, let none survive.

Posted by: BLUEelite52
Adding bloom to the game totally ruined what made halo...halo.


Wrong.

Please watch this and report back.

  • 05.20.2010 5:53 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: Dude it is a DMR
Posted by: Pudd D Sniper
*Cough*


QFT


FOR THE LAST GODDAMN TIME, RETICULE BLOOM =/= BULLET SPREAD. YOU HAVE NO VISUAL INDICATOR THAT THE SPREAD EXISTS, BUT YET THE BULLETS GO IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. THIS IS CALLED BULLET SPREAD BECAUSE THE BULLETS SPREAD OUT IN RANDOM DIRECTION. RETICULE BLOOM IS A VISUAL INDICATOR THAT ALLOWS PLAYERS TO SEE A GENERAL AREA IN WHICH THEIR BULLETS WILL GO, INCREASING OVER TIME.

I can't even explain how some people think that "lol halo: ce had bullet spread on two guns in Reach that automatically makes the bloom good".

Herp de derp derp, the bloom is implemented AWFULLY into Halo: Reach. The bullet spread was good in past games because for one thing: it did not limit better players to slowing down their gameplay and for another thing: it did not have a visual indicator so that people had to aquire, over time, the knowledge to know where their bullets will go.

My solution: take out the visual indicator, keep the bullet spread. This will cause bullet spamming to be MUCH less effective because people will now not know whether their bullets have a good chance of hitting or not unless they gain the skill to see. Skill gap created, still fair for newbs.



[Edited on 05.20.2010 5:54 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 5:53 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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I like it. Allows me to fire faster when close range, and fire more accurately at long range, rather than one set rate of fire at all ranges with some random spread at all times as well (the BR in halo 3).

I think it raises skill cap not lowers it, now not only do you have to use the 'skill' of keeping your reticule on target but also the skill of using the correct shot pacing for your targets distance.

lrn2paceshots.

It may not be perfect, pacing or spread width may need to be altered for certain weapons before launch, but the concept of bullet spread is not the problem.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 5:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 5:57 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: korp96
The bloom is balanced out by the small clip size, if you spam, you have a better chance of missing and thus wasting bullets while the enemy shoots you in the head 5 times. With the bloom spamming is only effective at close range but with bloom, spamming is ineffective at medium to long range. IF those "skilled" people are so "skilled" then they should be able to overcome blind luck by actually hitting a person in the head. Bloom takes skill to handle, certainly more then the all-purpose BR spamming at all ranges.


The bloom was SUPPOSED to balance out the small clip size by making spamming less effective, except for the fact that the bloom HARDLY affects spammers at all during a firefight at the weapon's main intended range. Mid-range DMR battles almost always resorted to just spamming to see who can get the kill first because of how little the bloom actually affects your bullets. Want to make bloom effective? REALLY ramp it up or remove the visual indicator that it's there. Seriously. Don't help new players use guns that should require skill just because they're new. They need to learn, not have their hand held through the whole game.

  • 05.20.2010 5:58 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Posted by: RightTrick
I like it. Allows me to fire faster when close range, and fire more accurately at long range, rather than one set rate of fire at all ranges with some random spread at all times as well (the BR in halo 3).

I think it raises skill cap not lowers it, now not only do you have to use the 'skill' of keeping your reticule on target but also the skill of using the correct shot pacing for your targets distance.

lrn2paceshots.


You realize that this technically lowers the skill gap, right? It isn't a skill to know that spamming your bullets with the current bloom system is more effective at close range.

What would fix the skill gap and increase it again would just be a simple fire cap. Cap the rate of fire at the time it would take for the bloom to reset right now and you take out ALL off the bullet spamming that's causing problems AND make mid range firefights more interesting because there's no more option to resort to bullet spamming anymore.

As well, considering this is a single shot rifle, you have no bullet spread so that as long as you can hit your shots when you're allowed to fire your bullets (assuming a situation where a fire cap is implemented), the entirety of your kills using the DMR would be completely based on your skill to accurate hit your shots and as of right now, it's purely based on just 'knowing when to use the right fire rate', which really takes less than 5 games to learn.

Edit: this would also cater to those who prefer team based gameplay over lone wolfing. Adding a fire cap to the DMR that's based on the time that it takes for the bloom to reset right now would cause the DMR to be much less useful at close range, which would mean that using the DMR requires more of a team effort to use tactically throughout a game.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 6:05 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 6:02 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Between playing Halo and World of Warcraft, I must be the poo-bah nerd.

First of all, for SINGLE SHOT WEAPONS, reticule bloom has NOT existed in previous Halo games, visual or otherwise. Halo 3 BR had spread, which is different. Go back and shoot in Halos 1-3 with single shot weapons. As long as your reticule is on the target, no matter how fast you shoot, your bullets will hit.

It adds an element of randomness to the game, in a negative way. Let me explain why.

When you manage to land a kill on someone with a DMR, does it feel awesome? No. It feels like what should have happened. However, suddenly when your shots are missing and you die because of it, it feels like the game mechanics have failed you. There is no sense of accomplishment for getting a kill. Only a sense of frustration when a kill is not made because of the bloom's random nature.

  • 05.20.2010 6:08 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Were it so easy.

I agree, it is pointless, I see what they were going for, but Halo doesn't need it, it was fine before.

  • 05.20.2010 6:12 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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Posted by: BeastOfFate
You realize that this technically lowers the skill gap, right? It isn't a skill to know that spamming your bullets with the current bloom system is more effective at close range.

It is a skill because its not just "Do I spam or wait 2 sec between each shot?" Its a variable speed you have to know for each weapon depending on how far you are from them, if they are attacking you, etc.

What would fix the skill gap and increase it again would just be a simple fire cap. Cap the rate of fire at the time it would take for the bloom to reset right now and you take out ALL off the bullet spamming that's causing problems AND make mid range firefights more interesting because there's no more option to resort to bullet spamming anymore.I dont think so, then it is just 'click the trigger as fast as you can no matter what' your only challenge is keeping the reticule on target, thats not harder thats easier.

As well, considering this is a single shot rifle, you have no bullet spread so that as long as you can hit your shots when you're allowed to fire your bullets (assuming a situation where a fire cap is implemented), the entirety of your kills using the DMR would be completely based on your skill to accurate hit your shots and as of right now, it's purely based on just 'knowing when to use the right fire rate', which really takes less than 5 games to learn.No, once again, the spread is how far your bullet deviates from the exact center of your reticule, or how wide your bloom is at the time of your fired shot, whether its one bullet at a time or not. People argue that the current system rewards the random element of where shots will hit within that spread but it doesnt unless everyone is firing quicker than they should. If my reticule never blooms wider than my target all my shots will hit, if I am firing too quickly, they have a chance to miss, and that is my problem do to the lack of my skill at shot pacing.

In the end, my argument against your proposed 'fix' of a set shot rate is this: With this fix, all players skilled or not will fire at the same rate, that is a textbook lowering of deviation between players (or lowering of skill gap), and in the end, I would at least prefer to have the OPTION of how quickly I pull the trigger, rather than having it decided for me. If I miss shots because of that than its my problem.

  • 05.20.2010 6:13 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas
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IMMA ACTUALLY A KOOL GUY TO KNOW I HAVE A KOOL-AID HEART BUT DONT GET IT TWISTED LIKE A BLUNT I DO CATCH WREKK... A WHOLE LOT OF WREKK

Posted by: BLUEelite52
The br diddnt have bloom at all just a rate of fire

Yeah it did.

  • 05.20.2010 6:13 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Between playing Halo and World of Warcraft, I must be the poo-bah nerd.

Posted by: Monkeylizard
Posted by: BLUEelite52
The br diddnt have bloom at all just a rate of fire

Yeah it did.


No, it didn't. It had a spread in Halo 3 which was unrelated to your RoF. No bloom.

  • 05.20.2010 6:14 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Were it so easy.

Posted by: Dude it is a DMR
Posted by: Pudd D Sniper
*Cough*


QFT

Bullet spread=/=bloom

Bloom, I can guarantee you, has not been in every Halo game. My shots have not missed with a BR or pistol when firing at a target consecutively.

  • 05.20.2010 6:14 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

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Posted by: DG Ren3gade

It adds an element of randomness to the game, in a negative way. Let me explain why.


Its not that hard to wait the extra millisecond for the reticule bloom to return to normal before firing your next shot, you just need to slow down and breathe. Halo games have always been of a slower pace than most FPS and I personally relish the return to a more Halo: Combat Evolved gameplay pace.

  • 05.20.2010 6:15 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Between playing Halo and World of Warcraft, I must be the poo-bah nerd.

Posted by: TheFreakture
Posted by: DG Ren3gade

It adds an element of randomness to the game, in a negative way. Let me explain why.


Its not that hard to wait the extra millisecond for the reticule bloom to return to normal before firing your next shot, you just need to slow down and breathe. Halo games have always been of a slower pace than most FPS and I personally relish the return to a more Halo: Combat Evolved gameplay pace.


It is that hard when your opponent simply doesn't bother. It adds an element of luck to the even-ground shooting game that doesn't come out as fun. All it amounts to is frustration.

  • 05.20.2010 6:16 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas

Were it so easy.

Posted by: TheFreakture
Posted by: DG Ren3gade

It adds an element of randomness to the game, in a negative way. Let me explain why.


Its not that hard to wait the extra millisecond for the reticule bloom to return to normal before firing your next shot, you just need to slow down and breathe. Halo games have always been of a slower pace than most FPS and I personally relish the return to a more Halo: Combat Evolved gameplay pace.

Its not a millisecond, more like a second. And it is hard when they are just spraying you and can kill you if you time your shots.

  • 05.20.2010 6:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: DG Ren3gade
It is that hard when your opponent simply doesn't bother. It adds an element of luck to the even-ground shooting game that doesn't come out as fun. All it amounts to is frustration.

No, you are just panicking, the player shooting at you as fast as possible may win once or twice on luck as his randomly scattered shots happen to land on target, but more often you will win if you just stand and pace your shots properly. You should only be getting frustrated if you panic as someone runs at you guns blazing and forget to be calm, aim, pace, and win.
Posted by: LinkLegend0
Its not a millisecond, more like a second. And it is hard when they are just spraying you and can kill you if you time your shots.
Exactly. It is hard, aka a wider skill gap, and something that takes time to learn. If you pace yours perfectly and they dont, you WILL win.

[Edited on 05.20.2010 6:21 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2010 6:19 PM PDT
  • reply edit unleash ninjas