Halo Reach Beta Forum
  • Subject: Why are the Headshot guns in the game so ineffective? ANSWERS
Subject: Why are the Headshot guns in the game so ineffective? ANSWERS

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

In my humble opinion the two guns that we are expected to rely on (the DMR and the pistol} heavily for our kills need to have larger clip sizes. in order to get a kill out of them you have to use half if not the whole clip which really doesn't allow you to capitalize on any other people you see unless you switch guns which you will more than likely be switching to a gun that cannot help you achieve multikills. in all the previous halo games the guns that you carried always allowed you to get at least a double kill. maybe this isn't a big deal to anyone else but it is a big deal to me and I'm wondering if something can be done

I feel part of the problem lies with reticule bloom:

3 People who suck entirely spraying with ANY weapon, will dominate a skilled player with a headshot weapon. They have more super nades, they're able to get more accurate shots off faster. I just broke the numbers and percentages down for someone ingame. But the basic side of it is that the enemy team is 3 times more likely to hit you then you are to hit them in an ambush, even if they're wildly spraying, you however have to let your gun rest since they're probably spread apart. Overall you're a weaker force, your aim could be better, you could've gotten the first shot off, regardless. You're going to have a damn impossible time knocking those guys off while trying to dodge all the nades they'll be chucking, keep them from closing in and beating your head in, AND not getting mowed down from the fire of 3 guns.

Halo's fast paced run and gun skill wins gameplay has been shifted more towards slow and steady due to the bloom, which is fine and all except for that it makes the game easier where it should be harder. Its also sometimes very random. I've been in cases where i should have been punished for pushing the trigger a bunch only to end up getting the kill against a slow firing pistol user even though he took the time to compensate for reticule bloom. This is more apparent with the DMR right now in my opinion and as a result 1v1 fights have become more random because of it. It doesn't even work well in the range that it was designed for. If theres a guy at mid range and i have my DMR, I'm forced to slow down my shots in order to compensate for the bloom giving the opponent the option to just run away if I'm outskilling him because i have to wait so long before i fire again.

seriously i probably only have one triple kill and 28 doubles. if you're not getting some kind of power weapon or super overpowered grenade help then you're probably not going to get a multikill. the pistol only has enough bullets in it for one kill another thing i don't get. I think bungie needs to fix this because multikills were fun to get. people take too long to die from guns, which is what is causing the issue. The nades are probably the most effective thing in this game right now and that's just insane. They're like having 2 tactical nukes in your pocket its ridiculous and its a damn shame that the two guns that are supposed to be the face of the game as the pistol was to halo CE and the BR to halo 2 and three doesn't compete to having nukes in my pocket

HITBOXES

these are also a big issue. first off let me start off by saying that is a crying shame that as of right now TEAM SWAT is the best gametype and the one that takes the most skill. Even though that's the case because of the hitscan weapons the reticule bloom and hitboxes ruin this. the hitboxes are severely off. you cant hit a guy in the head to get the headshot, you have to put it above his head. it took me about 8 games to finally figure it out and that's a big issue. I realize that its a beta but I've seen no one else mention it and it needs to be addressed

GAME SPEED AND ITS EFFECTS ON WEAPON USAGE

Now some of you may be thinking "what does game speed have to do with weapon usage" but it really has a huge effect on it. you move so slow in this game that it renders strafing next to useless because you can hit anyone with relative ease. I remember people saying that no scoping was going to be the hardest thing in this game and it really isn't. this game makes me feel like I'm a sniper master. I line up noscopes so easy because the people just move too slow which makes for easy kill, also when you're using the headshot capable weapons and you're backpedaling against an AR charging person you don't move backwards fast enough to get enough shots off to avoid being killed or avoid their lunge for that matter

CLIP SIZE
There is no other way to say this other than the DMR and pistol need bigger clip sizes. This goes double for the pistol. the one clean kill it allows with the clip is not enough for smooth gameplay because once you use it up and have to reload as often as you do, you're setting yourself up for death

IN SUMMATION

As of today (May 2nd) i can honestly say that i really like this game. Its really well done when it comes to the core gameplay mechanics and with some fine tuning could be top 2 greatest halo games. I do still have issues with the DMR and its flat out ineffectiveness and have abandoned using it completely for the pistol which is just an all around better weapon unless you're playing team swat. The hitboxes do still need work and the pace of the game is too slow which makes strafing extremely ineffective, and YES the bloom is still a major issue that needs to be addressed before the final version of halo reach is released.

[Edited on 05.05.2010 5:22 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 3:13 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
Subject: why are multikills a thing of the past

You go that way, I'll go home!

It's fine. You get a greater sense of satisfaction when you get double, triple and overkills now.

  • 04.30.2010 3:30 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

yeah because easy killing sprees are the best way to balance a game.

omg bungie, I cannot solo the entire opposing team, you have to fix that.

  • 04.30.2010 3:31 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Failure League Gaming since 2007.

Posted by: PWNAGEPOLICE2
It's fine. You get a greater sense of satisfaction when you get double, triple and overkills now.


No I didn't get satisfaction when I swinged my hammer for a no work at all overkill...
But well yeah with a pistol, a triple from fullshielded enemies would be a nuke.

  • 04.30.2010 3:32 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
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Posted by: Checkoh
yeah because easy killing sprees are the best way to balance a game.

omg bungie, I cannot solo the entire opposing team, you have to fix that.


lol not what he was getting at. people take too long to die from guns, which is whats causing the issue

[Edited on 04.30.2010 3:35 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 3:33 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

my friend has gotten a kiltac.... He got the sniper with 2 bullets and got a double then he just used the DMR

  • 04.30.2010 3:33 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I pulled an Overkill last night in one of my first games of FFA. Seriously, It's not a super big deal. I think I have two trips so far and I've only played 15 games sooo.....

  • 04.30.2010 3:35 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

Posted by: Degobah
I pulled an Overkill last night in one of my first games of FFA. Seriously, It's not a super big deal. I think I have two trips so far and I've only played 15 games sooo.....


in FFA sure i can see it happening. but in team playlists where people arent oblivious to what youre doing multikills are damn near impossible

  • 04.30.2010 3:38 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

in FFA sure i can see it happening. but in team playlists where people arent oblivious to what youre doing multikills are damn near impossible

that sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

  • 04.30.2010 3:41 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

King of the Respawn

What OP appears to mainly be getting at is that with any of the starters or DMR/NR it's pretty much impossible to kill more than one enemy in one clip, you have to resort to more than one gun which is fine if you're carrying a gun that allows it, but the massive amount of grenade spam and the gun rush makes it a more difficult, and less enjoyable process.

Not to mention the weapon inaccuracy pretty much penalizes outmatched players. Where as the 3 players overall will be able to get off a perfect accuracy shot after letting their reticules reset, you have to somehow dodge and weave at less than 1/3rd of the firepower they have. Combine that with the insane amount of grenade spam and you're faced with a catch 22 where if the opposing team is charging you, numbers will outrank pure skill.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 3:43 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 3:42 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

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Posted by: PWNAGEPOLICE2
It's fine. You get a greater sense of satisfaction when you get double, triple and overkills now.

This.

  • 04.30.2010 3:45 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Never Look Back

I can't see anyone getting a extermination too often anymore

  • 04.30.2010 3:48 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

Posted by: xo u2 rokker
Posted by: PWNAGEPOLICE2
It's fine. You get a greater sense of satisfaction when you get double, triple and overkills now.

This.


so getting multikills off of random occurrences makes it more satisfying? cause thats what they are in the beta

  • 04.30.2010 3:48 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
  • gamertag: Dootuz
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This was Dootuz117 but i changed accounts
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Posted by: just another fan
Yeah, because we all know that weird guys on youtube always speak the truth.

Posted by: Hot Sauce 147
Posting on bungie.net should require that the user has had to have read a chapter book all the way through.

Yeah see, this game takes skill.

  • 04.30.2010 3:51 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

WCF Psyanyde - WillClan4Food - GGN Delegate

Here's a killimanjaro in a juggernaut game.

I've gotten a couple overkills with the plasma launcher too. That thing is nasty (don't tell Sage.)

  • 04.30.2010 3:53 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Posted by: JohnnyLawrence
On the other hand I do agree about the clip sizes, DMR needs to be at least double what it is now and less bloom.

So you can super spam it at close range, making the pistol worthless? Good plan.

  • 04.30.2010 3:53 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

Posted by: DootuzPIE
Yeah see, this game takes skill.


..... if thats what you wanna think then fine. I'm not saying the game doesnt take skill what im saying is that it takes too long to kill someone and even when you do youre probably gonna die right after because you have to reload the gun you were just using.

and to the guy that got that clip WOW

  • 04.30.2010 3:56 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

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Posted by: xo u2 rokker
Posted by: PWNAGEPOLICE2
It's fine. You get a greater sense of satisfaction when you get double, triple and overkills now.

This.

true

  • 04.30.2010 3:59 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

Remember, you die just as slow as they do.

If it doesn't work that way for you, then you're doing it wrong.

  • 04.30.2010 4:00 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas
Subject: why are multikills a thing of the past?

Posted by: JohnnyLawrence
Posted by: DeathIsTheEnd
Posted by: JohnnyLawrence
On the other hand I do agree about the clip sizes, DMR needs to be at least double what it is now and less bloom.

So you can super spam it at close range, making the pistol worthless? Good plan.


The pistol is overpowered anyway. As it stands, it can easily win against a DMR at mid and close range and takes just as many shots to kill. Not bad for a SIDEARM.

The pistol is meant to be used as a close range weapon, and I've found the DMR will beat it at mid range. And please don't use the whole 'sidearm' argument, because we all know that's just silly.

[Edited on 04.30.2010 4:04 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2010 4:02 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas

I can't fly with pigeons, gotta soar with eagles
A wise man told me vultures don't war with seagulls

ROCAFELLA 4VER HOV 4 LIFE
FIRST DEBUT CLASSIC FIRST ALBUM 4 MICS
IT SHOULDA GOT A FIVE BUT THEY LACKED 4SIGHT

neither of those two guns are as effective as they should be

  • 04.30.2010 4:15 PM PDT
  • unleash ninjas